Interview с Phlebotomized : DARKSIDE.ru

Tell us something about yourselves. Do you have brothers or sisters? Where were you born in Holland? And may be something else you want to add considering it would be any interest for our readers…

Dennis Geestman (vocals): I have a sister and was born in Rotterdam. I lived in Spijkenisse all my life, but moved out 4 years ago. I now live in Schoonhoven where I voluntarily work for a small local concert hall De Bastille (www.debastille.com). For a living I work as a database marketing analyst. I am a record collector (vinyl rules!) and see at least 100 bands perform live each year. Furthermore, I visit theater, cinema, and museums and play in a new band Held with Tom. My other passion is Belgian beers.

Tom Palms (guitar): I have a sister too and I was born in Rotterdam too. I lived in Rotterdam, Spijkenisse and nowadays in a very little village called H’Veld Giessendam. I am a guitar teacher for a living and I gave lessons to hundreds of people during the past few years. Music is my passion and my fulltime job and that’s great. Metal still is my life. I am happily married and I’m bound to kick ass with Dennis in our new metal band Held.

Lawrence Payne (drums): Well, I’m Lawrence Payne, 34 years old now… In the early days when we started playing I was 14, Tom 16 and Patrick 16. I was born in Brussels, 1972. My mother’s Swedish, my father’s English and I live in Holland. (smiles) I’ve got a younger sister in age, but she’s older spiritually, if you know what I mean… Currently I play and sing in two bands: My Every Thought, which is a bit of alternative rock, metal, emo etc, and LP Blues Band, which is a blues-cover band, where we play a lot of songs by one of my favorite blues-songwriters Willie Dixon (lots of fun!).

Let’s start with when you first started to listen to rock/metal. What made you do this? What were the first LPs you got? What were the first shows you attended?

Lawrence: When I was still at school, I was listening to early 1980s rock and metal, such as Bon Jovi, Europe, Scorpions, Iron Maiden, Metallica, Anthrax, Slayer, Nuclear Assault, Holy Terror etc… Later the scene became increasingly heavier with bands like Naplam Death, Autopsy, Carcass, Morbid Angel, Death, Nocturnus… So naturally we kind of blended everything together and that’s how we wanted to play heavy music. I remember we attended the first tours of Morbid Angel and Napalm Death, I think it was 1988 or 1989. Then we also saw Death on the Leprosy tour and Autopsy on the Severed Survival tour.

Tom: Kiss was my first experience, “Alive II” kicked ass right away. Shortly after that I listened to Motorhead, AC/DC, Maiden and Metallica (“Master of Puppets” is my all time favorite). My first show was together with Lawrence. We went to a show of the band Wehrmacht in Rotterdam. I remember it so well because I got a kick in my face by a huge skinhead.

Dennis: The first singles I bought were “The Final Countdown” by Europe, “Walk This Way” by Aerosmith/Run DMC and “Wasted Years” by Iron Maiden. That was in 1986, I was 11 years old and I became a great fan of Iron Maiden. I still love them, so that makes me a fan for 20 years now! The first live show I saw was Psychotic Waltz on Dynamo Open Air 1991. My friend Jordy Middlebosch (guitar) told me he was going to Dynamo with some other guys, and so I went with them. That way I got introduced to Lawrence, Patrick and Barry from Phlebotomized. A few weeks later I saw my first Phlebotomized concert in our school. Jordy joined the band a few months later and I followed three years later…

When did you decide to become a musician? And why did you start playing this particular musical instrument? What were your influences as a musician? Did you have any musician education?

Tom: I got my first lesson when I was 15. Metal always has meant loud guitars to me and because of that I wanted to play the damn instrument. After 4 years I went to the conservatory in Rotterdam and I graduated in 2002. My biggest influence has been Kirk Hammet from Metallica, Adrian Smith from Maiden and Joe Satriani.

Dennis: No musical education here, just passion. Already as a small kid, I taped complete radio shows. I always wanted to play the guitar, but I never learned. Maarten Post (violin) of Phlebotomized asked me to come and sing in Ploink, the band where he played bass. That was in 1993, and that was a lot of fun. I stopped with Ploink when I joined Phlebotomized. The two growlers that inspired me most were Nick Holmes (Paradise Lost) and Chris Reifert (Autopsy), although I don’t believe I really sound much alike. I still listen to those early Paradise Lost and Autopsy albums with great pleasure. In my opinion Autopsy still is the best death metal act ever!

Tom and Lawrence – how did you guys meet in the first place?

Tom: We met at a trip to Berlin. We both went to the same highschool. Lawrence already was into heavy shit. In 1988 I was into Metallica, Maiden, Slayer, Megadeth. Lawrence at the other hand was into Napalm Death, Nuclear Assault, Possessed. I was blown away! We hung out during that trip. It was quite obvious we were the freaks and I think from that moment on we knew we got to hang out more in the future.

Lawrence Well, back in 1988 there were school trips for students to visit major cities in Europe, such as London, Paris, Rome. But there was also Berlin, which was still divided in East and West, so I thought it to be the most challenging city to go to. There I met Tom. We were both into heavy music so we exchanged our music and later came to the idea to try and make music ourselves. Tom just started playing, but I said OK, then I’ll try to do the drums… Later we actually recorded CDs, how is it possible? Miracle!? Tom finished his classical studies in Spanish guitar and is a full-time guitar-teacher now. I try to listen well to music, but I don’t have as much knowledge in theory as Tom. I try to feel music intuitively.

When did you d

ecide to found a new band? What bands did you see as your main influences?

Tom: Lawrence and I started in March 1989. Together with a former friend who played the bass we started Bacterial Cancer - a name Lawrence came up with. Not much longer after that we got rid of our bassplayer and Patrick van der Zee entered the band. Patrick was a friend of Lawrence and soon after that he became mine too. The original line-up was born. We stayed a threesome for 1.5 years. “Devoted To God”, “Subtle Disbalanced Liquidity”, “Tragic Entanglement” and “Desecration of Alleged Christian History” were written at that time. Our influences were Napalm Death, Autopsy, Paradise Lost, Morbid Angel, Metallica, Iron Maiden (melodies rule!) but also hardcore and crossover because of the pure agression.

Soon after the band was formed in 1989, the title changed to “Bacterial Disease”. Why? What style were you playing back then? Did you record something? Who was standing at the mic stand back then?

Tom: Yes, our original name was Bacterial Cancer but after someone died because of cancer we decided to change it to Bacterial Disease. Lawrence came up with the name. We played pure agression. Loud, fast, noise in its purest way. Was it good? No, but we didn’t care. We just wanted to play! We didn’t record anything. Sure I still have some rehearsal tapes but I don’t dare to let someone listen to it. Patrick sang at some songs. I did the vocals on “Subtle”.

How long did it take you to make a decision to change to Phlebotomized? Why this very name and what does it mean for you?

Tom: We changed our name into Phlebotomized at the end of 1990. It sounded cool, was quite difficult and I think it represented the musical direction we were heading at. I mean, we became more mature, better at our instruments and it became clear that we wanted to become an original band. There were no other options. Lawrence was our creative brain lyrically because of two reasons: first, he could express himself very good within his lyrics, and second, his mother tongue is English. So grammatically he beat us all. To me he wrote very intelligent lyrics. He thought about stuff I never had thought off. Referring to the bandname: he came up with it and we thought it was our name to be in the future. The meaning: an incision in your veins.

When did you get Barry Schuyer (vocals) and Ben Quak (keyboards)to the band rouster? How did you get to know them? Did they play in any other bands prior to that?

Tom: Ben and Barry entered the band short after eachother. In the end of 1990 we were looking for a singer and because of the album “The Key” by Nocturnus we knew we wanted a keyplayer as well. I met Barry at school when I switched to another class. He was a huge fan of Obituary and at first he sounded the same as John Tardy. I was blown away. I told the other guys I found our new singer. He rehearsed with us and we decided he could become our frontman. Barry and I rehearsed a lot together and after a while he got that monstruous voice of him. Ben was a friend of Lawrence. He didn’t listen to metal at all but we gave him a proper education by giving him a lot of LPs and CDs of the bands we were listening to. I think his parents were very glad with us! They did not play in bands prior to us.

Your logo was designed by a guy called Mike Chung. Could you say a few words who he was and how you got in touch with him?

Tom: Lawrence got to know the guy but he wasn’t interesting to us and to the band’s history. We thank him for our logo but beside that there is not much to mention. Before I forget; “Dubbed Forswearer” (from the album “Immense Intense Suspence”) is based on his characteristics.

Why did you start looking for the second guitarist? How long did it take you to find Jordy and how did it all happen?

Tom: The music of Phlebotomized always dealt with two things: heaviness and melody. Metallica and Iron Maiden have always been my biggest influences. They still are. The craftsmanship in means of harmonies is something I always wanted to add to my music. Lawrence too was someone who was experimenting with melodies, later on also vocal-wise. In our music we needed someone who could add weight to our sound but also someone who could play the melodies and harmonies Lawrence and I wrote. We found someone who had these two components - Jordy. Luckily he attended the same school as we so in the end you could say we were a high school band.

It is known that you recorded a demo after Jordy became a full-time axeman. But there’s no info on what was on that demo! Did it have any title? Were there different tracks from the later-to-be-released “Devoted to God” tape, and were there any, maybe, re-worked material from the Bacterial Disease times?

Tom: Before Jordy got to the band we recorded a live-tape. It was not an official release. We recorded only one demo, “Devoted To God” (1992). Jordy didn’t play on that one either. His first recording with Phlebotomized was the “Preach Eternal Gospels” EP (1993).

When did you record your second demo “Devoted To God”? The inlay for “Devoted to God” tape and the back cover of the “In Search Of Tranquility” EP I have state the same thing – “Recorded at Het Pand, Vlaardingen, Feb. 29 – March 2, 1992. Produced, mixed and engineered by: Fritz van Mourik and Phlebotomized.” Is it indeed the case? Did you record both things at the same time, or my demo tape copy has a fake cover?

Lawrence: Everything is from the same recording… Duh!?

Dennis: These are the same tracks. The A-side of the demo is the same as the 7-inch. Except on vinyl the songs somehow sound different, the keyboards are more present. Maybe the tracks were remastered for the single?

The artwork for “Devoted to God” was done by Marcel Molenaar. Was he also responsible for the later pre-“Immense…” releases? W

hy did you choose him?

Tom: Marcel was a friend of mine. Later on he stuck to the band because he was a huge fan. He was a very creative person who came up with some ideas the band could use.

“Het Pand”, if I understood correctly, is the studio you recorded at. And it seems like it was your first experience at a studio. How was it like? Did you use the usual pattern of recording or not?

Tom: It was our first experience and we knew right away that we didn’t want it to be the last. It was great. The band was based on friendship, so we had the time of our lives. We heard our music come alive from something that was originated from someone’s mind to something you could play in your stereo. A dream came true. What is the original pattern of recording? We always recorded the drums and the rhythm guitars first such as most metal bands do. Later on we added the bass, second guitar, keys, leads, twins and vocals.

Who was Fritz van Mourik – why did you choose him and do you know if he did any other known recordings?

Tom: Studio Het Pand was nearby our hometowns. We knew he had experience with metal bands and to us that was the most important thing. We made the right decision because Frits made us feel comfortable and he had a clear vision about how we wanted to sound. It was important to me because I was a rooky. He helped me with my sound in means of heaviness and clearness.

The female vocals on the demo were performed by Diana Les – any remembrances about her?

Tom: Yeah, she was a chick from school who was totally into metal, a rareness in our region at that time. She was dressed in black totally. She made an impression because she was a cool chick, about five feet high, with a very high voice. After the recording we never heard from her again, so she made history without knowing. We still talk about her, 14 years after the recording… (laughs)

The “Thanks..” part of the demo art says: “All families of the band members for immortal support although they think we play absolute garbage.” Did they really think so? And did their opinions change as the time passed?

Lawrence: No…

Tom: Our parents didn’t like the music at all, but as time passed by they were proud of what we achieved with our noise.

Dennis: My parents were always supportive. Somewhat reserved maybe, because they were afraid my studies would suffer from all the effort I spent in the band. They couldn’t really enjoy the music, but they listened with amazement to our band stories, though.

You were shopping this demo tape to all labels. What was the reaction? Why did you choose Cenotaph Records? And what is unclear to me is what “Malodorous Mangled Innards Records” from Germany did for you. Were they just a sublabel to Cenotaph or were they only handling the distribution?

Dennis: We had a lot of response from labels, and Cenotaph were the first to offer a deal for an EP. After “Preach Eternal Gospels” was recorded, Cenotaph somehow could not release it. I don’t recall why. MMI Records had released the 7-inch “In Search Of Tranquility” some months earlier, and since that was a success, we both wanted MMI to release the “Preach…” EP. I don’t believe there was a connection between Cenotaph and MMI.

Do you know how many copies of “In Search Of Tranquillity” were printed? Was it released in red vinyl format only?

Dennis: The 7-inch was printed in 3,000 copies and indeed, all on red vinyl. It is the only Phlebotomized release on vinyl. Pity, as a vinyl collector I would have liked all our releases on vinyl.

All songs from “Devoted to God” demo later appeared both on “Preach Eternal Gospels” EP and “Immense, Intense, Suspense”. Did they appear in the same version or you did something to them?

Dennis: “Preach Eternal Gospels” was originally intended as a 7-inch. But the songs were too long to fit on a 7-inch, so they were put on CD. But, then we thought the length of the 3 songs would be too short for a CD. So, MMI added two more tracks from the demo to the mini-CD. At that time we already knew these two tracks would not make it on the debut-CD. For our debut, we re-recorded “Subtle”, “Desecration”, “Devoted” and “In Search”. We wanted to re-record these tracks because they were among our best songs and these songs had not appeared on any CD before. Besides, the demo recordings were obviously not their best versions.

In August 1992 you entered the studio again to record the new material. Phlebotomized turned into septet and you recorded MCD “Preach Eternal Gospels”. But why was it released only in 1993?

Dennis: Again, because it was recorded to be released by Cenotaph. It took some time before Cenotaph definitely backed out, and after that it took some time before MMI could release it as they – of course - had not anticipated this release.

Now about live performances. When and where was the first time you performed as Phlebotomized? Did you open for someone and how did you, guys, all fit onto a stage? (smiles)

Lawrence: Cultural Devastation Day, Ring van Putten, 1991.

Tom: I can’t remember the first gig as a six-piece band exactly but it has to be around November 1991 in a local joint called Tex Mex. Shortly after the demo we played with Therion, Samael, The Gathering, Obtruncation and Anathema.

Dennis: We didn’t always fit on the stage. I remember a time in Ghent, Belgium, when the stage was so small, that we ended up playing in four rows behind each other: 3 rows of 2 players, and Lawrence in the back! That show was great. Not only was the venue small, the ceiling was low as well. It seemed as if the divers came of the ceiling!

I have an interesting item I got through tape trading – your recording dated February 8, 199

2 and it’s recorded through a soundboard and it is said to be “Unreleased Official Live Tape”. It has four tracks: Subtle Disbalanced Liquidity/Befalling of Our Celestial Emperor’s Adversary/Tragic Entanglement/Devoted to God, with a total length of 28 minutes. Please tell me how much truth is in all that, I mean did you really recorded your live gig for a “Live LP” release?

Dennis: This is the live-tape. Sometimes people refer to it as the first Phleb-demo, but that is not true. There’s only one demo, which is “Devoted to God”. The live-tape was recorded in our hometown early 1992. (although in his Phlebo-blog Dennis states the following - "04-07-1991 - Hardrock Party @ Demi Sec (Spijkenisse, NL). This is where we recorded the live-tape..."– ed.) By that time, we already had a lot of fans in and around Spijkenisse, but we did not have any music on tape. This tape was released for those fans. We copied the tapes and artwork ourselves. We made about 50 tapes. It is an original Phlebotomized release, but nothing official. We never used it for promotion in magazines. It was just for those fans in the early days.

And what happened to «The Befalling Of Our Celestial Emperor’s Adversary» track? Why it was never released officially?

Dennis: I guess "The Befalling…" was our least interesting song... We skipped it at the demo, because the other songs were better. After the demo was released the song was never played live again...

In general, how often did you perform live? How was the attendance? I know that later on you played longer sets and “spiced” them up with covers of “Eternal” (Paradise Lost) and “Breaking the Law” (Judas Priest). I cannot but say that you really did something great of them ‘cause they really stood out to the notion “cover version” and not just resigning, if you know what I mean. Did you play any other covers? And if yes, why them?

Dennis: We also played “Paranoid” from Black Sabbath for a while. I love Black Sabbath, so that was great to do. But our favorite cover was “Thumb” by Kyuss. The impact of “Blues for the Red Sun” was huge on me, and became an important part of the musical change for “Skycontact” (1996). During rehearsals and sound checks we often played (parts of) “Detroit Rock City”(Kiss), “Standing In Blood” (Nocturnus), “Zombie Ritual” (Death). Just for fun… I don’t recall we ever played those songs live…

Tom: We played “Zombie Ritual” once during a live show.

Barry left in January 1994 – why did it happen? How long did it take you to find Dennis?

Lawrence: No, Barry left after Mannheim (December 18, 1993 – ed.)…

Tom: The departure of Barry is a sad story. Unfortunately it was because of a big argument between me and Barry about something he did during a show. Dennis sang “Eternal” during a show after Barry left but initially he wasn’t in the picture to be our new singer. We tried a bunch of guys but they sounded really really bad. Dennis was our biggest fan and he got so angry because we couldn’t find the right guy. I think that was the biggest inspiration for him to work hard and he succeeded - he became our frontman.

Dennis, did you know Phlebotomized music before the band asked you to join? What did you think of their music? Was it hard to replace Barry? Were you trying to do what he was doing or you decided to do what you thought to be more appropriate?

Dennis: Yeah. In fact, I was their number 1 fan! I followed them anywhere they went. I sold their merchandise, helped out as a roadie, occasionally helped out with the sound but most of the times I just smoked their pot! (laughs) I guess I have seen them about as many times on the stage as later from the stage. To join them wasn’t easy. Barry was my friend and even though I very much wanted to be their singer, I felt it was inappropriate. So, Phlebotomized went on and found a new singer. In that time things between me and Barry also went wrong. So, there I was: not the singer of the band that I wanted to be in, and no longer friends with my pal. As soon as things didn’t work out with Phlebotomized’s new singer, I grabbed the microphone and gave it the most. Of course, I first copied Barry. The way he sang the songs was the only way I knew them, but I soon found my voice, articulation and style were different from his, and I made the songs my own.

So in July 1994 you set in Beaufort Studio to record your first full LP “Immense, Intense Suspense”. The entire world knows you thanks to this release. Were you satisfied with the way everything was recorded? Would you change anything if you had a chance now?

Dennis: I am still very proud of “Immense…”. It is the best band effort we released. This CD shows the band in the best possible condition, very positive, with all our minds in the same direction, in a sure and winning mood. Of course there are things that could have been better. In the end the sound wasn’t really our sound; it isn’t as heavy as we thought it would be. The mastering fucked up the original sound that our producer Han Swagerman Sr. had for us. As you can hear in the breaks, the breaks are never silent; you always hear some reverb which was added during the mastering. This is the reason why Han and two guys of the band were present at the mastering of “Skycontact”. Years later when our friends of NomeSane recorded at Beaufort, Han copied the original master tape for us, and we were all surprised by the difference.

In one of the interviews Dennis said that your material never had a final version and what you recorded was just a reflection of the way you saw the stuff at that very point of time. Does it mean that every time you performed your songs live you changed something adding up to the way you felt they should have sounded then?

Dennis: Yes, exactly! Well, the songs weren’t changed completely from one gig to another, but every few months changes were made, like extra br

eaks or small variations on riffs and tempos. Since we rehearsed the songs every week, new ideas kept coming.

Do you have any more comments on Han Swagerman Sr.? How was it to work him?

Dennis: Han is great - a guru, a first class guy, relaxed, but not easy-going, firm, but fair. I learned a great deal from him. Mind you, it was my first time in a studio. He made me feel at ease and gave me the time to develop. Before recording he let me growl and shout for an hour saying that was to get the sound right. But in fact, he just let me get my voice warm and let me lose my nerves. Han was aware of how important vocals are for any album and wanted my best performance. I wished he had been stricter with me during “Skycontact”, because a lot of vocals were recorded as if we were in a hurry.

Another thing that adds to the entire brilliant impression of the album is surely the artwork, done by a guy called Jochem Bult. Why did you choose him? Did you know him ‘cause of his previous works? Any ideas what Jochem meant by the art?

Lawrence: We’re still trying to find that one out…

Dennis: I don’t believe I ever met him, although I later heard that he visited one of our shows one time. I don’t know what he meant with the cover art, since I never got the chance to ask him. For me, it stands for the calm before the storm. The suspense prior to the coming rage. The moment you feel the hair on your arms tickle and your heart pounds with fear.

The album was released by Cyber Music. Some sources say it was a subdivision of Massacre Records - or something is mixed up here? Were you satisfied with the way they handled your promotion, etc?

Dennis: I don’t believe Cyber and Massacre are related, although I believe Massacre later promoted “Skycontact” in Germany. We were not happy with the promotion from Cyber. We chose Cyber because they would make our dreams come true: record the album we wanted with the time we needed. This they did, and for they that they get my eternal gratitude. But of course, they could have made a greater effort in promoting the band. With the right promotion we could have sold many, many more records. Two or three times as much, I am sure.

One of the metal magazines back in 1994 said that you were one of the two most-promising metal bands at that time, the second one was Cradle of Filth and we all know where they are now. Anyways, did you feel that you were becoming more and famous in the metal scene?

Dennis: Wow, what a statement, I’d like a copy of that! After “Immense…” was released we were in a winning mood. The album got some great reviews, here in Holland, and especially in Italy. We played gigs almost every weekend. We were asked to play in Belgium for the first time. We did a lot of interviews and most important: we had a great response from the fans. But, I guess nobody in the band ever thought we could play in the Premier League with bands like Cradle of Filth.

Did you do any touring to support the release and in general? What was the largest crowd you ever performed in front of? Did you play in any other countries apart from Holland and Germany?

Lawrence: Belgium!

Dennis: Between September 1994 and late 1995 we played our most gigs. We have had some weekends that we played two to three shows in a row. We played shows in Belgium and even ended up in France one time when searching for a Belgian venue in Poperingen. We were once offered to play in Italy, but that wasn’t easy to arrange. We played some festivals up to 500 people, but usually, our shows were visited by 80-150 people. Before the release of “Immense…” we opened for Samael, Anathema, Therion and The Gathering. After the release of “Immense…” we always headlined, which is a pity. It would have been better for us to be the support for bigger bands. Still the shows we did with Obtruncation, Polluted Inheritance and Evisceration were a lot of fun. And the times that Phlebotomized performed for only eight people were definitely over after the release of “Immense…”.

In 1994 Patrick and Maarten left. Why did it happen? Was it hard to go on without them?

Dennis: Patrick left in 1995 and Maarten left in 1996. Patrick left because he often had to work when the gigs were planned, and Maarten felt that he could not contribute to our sound anymore. I regret all splits, even Barry’s one. We never got to fill in their places right: we never found a permanent bass player (although I think our last one Ivar was going to be a stayer), we never found a (stage) personality and cook like Jordy again and we never found a band promoter like Barry was. Maarten is best remembered for his humor and his great musical influence on us: he is the one that introduced us to bands like Kyuss, Pink Floyd, Smashing Pumpkins and Arvo Part to name but a few. Although they all left for the right reasons, it is too bad that it happened and by leaving, they all – unintentionally - contributed to the final split. The magic declined with each departing member.

Some other sources say that Jordy left as well but he recorded for “Skycontact” according to the booklet. How much truth is here?

Dennis: Jordy plays on every release from the band (except the live-tape and the demo). He already decided to leave the band prior to recording “Skycontact”, but he left after the recordings. Already before entering the studio we found his successor Peter, but we decided to let Jordy record the album and of course we gave him all credits. In retrospect Jordy should have been on the band photos with “Skycontact”. That would have been clear to the fans and worthy to Jordy.

The next and the last release of Phlebotomized was “Skycontact” in 1997. Could you please tell us why it took you guys so long to release the album?

Dennis: We recorded the album in the summer of 1996. The artwork and the bookl

et were not ready after the recordings. It took some months to release the album and it was finally released in February 1997. I don’t recall any other reasons for the delay, but I’m sure there were.

I know that already in 1995 you performed at least one song from that release live – “I Lost My Cookies in the Disco". By the way, can you explain the meaning of this title for those who don’t know?

Dennis: “I Lost my Cookies in the Disco” was indeed the first song we had written after the release of “Immense…”. It is a metaphorical title, I’ll explain how it came up: Our tour manager was a little Indian woman called Puppy and she always had these great one-liners, like “Shit fire! And save matches!”. We did not have a title for the new song, but we always felt that its strange riff matched a Cookie monster rhyme called “Me Lost Me Cookie in the Disco”. Puppy then told us that “to lose your cookies” is American slang for throwing up. The disco is used as a metaphor for the world we live in and that whole idea fitted with some lyrics Lawrence had just written for the song, dealing with escapism. I then completed the lyrics for the middle part of the song, and we never changed the working title again.

You mixed and produced the CD on your own this time – why did it happen?

Dennis: Han had just bought a new mixing table with Cubase, which enabled us (well, Ben gets the credits here) to do the recording and mixing ourselves. Han advised of course, but most of the time he was tinkering on his Jaguar.

They say you got quite a lot of proposals for the release of “Skycontact” but you chose Cyber Music, and that eventually led to the end of the band. Do you regret you did it or you think everything went naturally?

Dennis: We wanted to sign with another company, most possibly Displeased. Cyber had fulfilled our dreams in releasing the debut, but was not able to expand our fame. We had only signed for one album and thought we were free to go. However, Cyber found a way in our contract to keep us for one more album, and thus we had to. It is one of those things that in the end led to the split.

The lyrical concept of your albums altered a lot from the demo to “Skycontact.” Did you just change your mind concerning the religions or your life concepts change or you just want to get the interest of a broader audience?

Dennis: As far as my lyrics for the album: I am not a religious person, so any lyric about religion from my hand would be either a fictional story or my opinion about certain religious issues. And in that time, that wasn’t really on my mind. The lyrical concept changed from “cold” objective observations (of things in the world) to “warmer” participation (our own emotions) and that challenged me to write about my own frustrations with modern society in “I lost my Cookies in the Disco”. Lawrence, of course, went a lot deeper in “Dizz-tanze” which dealt about his father and especially in “I Hope You Know” which deals with an accident he caused. “Sometimes” is a poem by Tom’s father who had died just before the recording of “Immense…”. In fact, “Gone…”, the last track we wrote for “Immense…”, already set that change in motion… That song has the same lyrical concept.

Lawrence: Everybody’s gotta grow up some time. I’ll tell you when that happens, OK? (laughs) No, seriously I had gone through pretty difficult times, and then you suddenly realize life is a big miracle, so I lost interest in horror-stuff (couldn’t take it serious anymore). I wanted to somehow describe something that would make me happy, and there was the need to reflect… In spite of all the doom and gloom that was happening and in that process I found a belief there is someone or something who has the power of life. Light is what you seek when you’re in darkness… And to this day I’m still struggling with the war between good and evil. I know I’m not such a good person, but I hope and believe everyone can change. I hope for the best and not the worst, anymore!!!

I don’t know ANY other band who approached the “hidden track” thing so unusually. I’m sure most of people who possess “Skycontact” have no idea about the instrumentation “Dizz-tanze” being a zero track on the CD. Whose idea was to do such an interesting thing?

Dennis: The guys at the mastering said it was possible and we had just thrown a song off the album. The vocals for “Dizz-tanze” didn’t work out, so we used an instrumental version of that song. “Dizz-tanze” was one of the key tracks for “Skycontact”. It made a lot of changes in our music possible. Therefore we were very happy that it still got included on the album somehow.

Once again could you please explain the cover artwork of the album and the title “Skycontact”? Did you change the logo just to show the band’s development?

Dennis: No, the logo was changed because people often said they couldn’t read it. On metal markets etc we saw that people had to flip the CD to read which band it was. That means your logo isn’t right. So, we created a new one ourselves. The cover art for “Skycontact” was done by a local artist called Gabriel Gressie. We visited him and explained what kind of album we had just made. I don’t believe he used our lyrical concept. My guess is that what appealed to him most was the musical evolution (baby?) and the fact that the music contained different layers (sky / water?) and that some things, like the extra track, were hidden (the hidden image of the cat). The original painting itself isn’t much bigger than the CD format, it’s a very precise miniature painting. I am very proud we contacted Gabriel to do the artwork.

So, the evident question – what led to the demise of the band? When exactly did it happen?

Dennis: The band fell apart in the summer or fall of 1997. We split after a band meeting. We never had band meetings in the past, and to me it seems that that was our mistake. P

roblems were never discussed, and now that we were to discuss them, we found our differences were suddenly huge. So there are two ways for a happy living: discuss your problems right away, or never discuss them at all.

Was there anything written for the “Skycontact” successor?

Dennis: We had one song ready, but I don’t recall the title. We performed it live twice before the band split up. We were working on other songs, and the style was changing again. Shorter and more to the point. The riffs were heavier, yet catchy and very rhythmic, almost danceable, more like Prong.

Did you ever have any thoughts of re-uniting? Do you think people would be interested in one-off reunion gig may be or a new album?

Dennis: No. I personally think reunions are shit. Except for the Black Sabbath reunion, that was great, but apart from that one I have never seen a good reunion. Jordy and Ivar (our last bass player) often said they would like to re-unite and do some concerts, but then again, I think a band should be asked to reunite and not shop around to please do some shows, right? I’d rather use my efforts to play with my new band Held. And I still see Tom, Lawrence, Ben and Maarten now and then. And Ruby as well: he was our live sound engineer, bus driver and weed guru. He also created the CD lay-out for “Immense…” and “Skycontact”. With Lawrence and Ruby, I went to see Depeche Mode last month, with Ben I went to see Deerhoof, and it’s Maarten’s birthday today, so I’ll visit him tonight. I also ran into Peter last week at a Radiohead concert. Ivar and Jordy I meet on the web, in forums etc. I see Tom every week in the rehearsal room with Held, and fortunately we meet outside the rehearsal room as well to drink Belgian beer or watch movies. And I guess I’ll see him a lot during the World Cup, we’ll watch some football games together. Hup Holland Hup!

Could you tell us what former members of Phlebotomized (the ones you know about) are occupied with now (education/work/bands etc)? If you are in the band could you advertise it here for us somehow?

Dennis: With Tom I play in Held. We set out to play speed metal, but already we have added some slower songs. But it is all heavy as hell and very metal. It is not as experimental as Phlebotomized, but that has a simple reason. When listening purely to metal, like we did in the early 1990s, you get sick and tired of hearing the same thing over and over and you want to go beyond the limits. Nowadays, we don’t only listen to metal, but when we do we want to enjoy the old stuff. All the experimental stuff I get from other genres. When I listen to metal I just want it to kick ass! We play some covers as well, like “Brain Death” (Nuclear Assault), “Infernal Death” (Death), “Surprise! You’re Dead” (Faith No More) and “Post Mortem” (Slayer).

Lawrence: We might do some shows with our new bands together in the future: Held (Tom and Dennis), My Every Thought (Lawrence), One Shot / One Kill (Dennis’ old band, good friends of ours!!!), Jordy used to be in Second Chance (drums!!!), Ben, Maarten and Patrick stopped playing music, but who knows?

A side of question to Lawrence: In 1991 you joined Obtruncation to handle the vocals. Why did it happen? Were you playing in both bands? Did you record just one demo with them?

Lawrence: They rehearsed at the same place where Phlebotomized practiced. I thought they were pretty good at what they were doing, so I joked I could sing, and a week later I did five songs. They liked it and I was in! At the time I thought it was pretty cool being evil and loving horror, but I found out it’s against our nature so later I got quite a bit of a guilt compex after insulting God so badly, but I was frustrated and angry, I guess… My parents divorced when I was 10, and it has always had an effect on me. I’m able to deal with it a little better now but the scars remain. I played in both bands for a couple of years, but later I quit Obtruncation, they’re OK guys, but it’s just not my thing…

Dennis: We often played shows together with Obruncation, so that meant that Lawrence performed twice on nights… He is also the one doing all vocals on “The Callous Concept”, their debut CD…

If you could, would you change anything about the past?

Lawrence: Yes… everything…

Dennis: First reaction: no! I enjoyed the time with Phlebotomized very much. I wouldn’t want to change a thing. On second thought: a lot! Quite some things crossed my mind again during this interview…

Tom: I would change the period of 1996/1997. Personally, I was too obsessed with some matters in my life. I wasn’t able to listen to some of my band members’ issues and until this time I regret that because it meant that I grew away further and further from the original idea of playing in a band: having fun with your buddies. Playing in Phlebotomized is the biggest achievement I made in my musical career and I want to thank the guys with whom it was possible: Lawrence, Patrick, Ben, Jordy, Maarten, Dennis and Ruby. Cheers Guys.

To crown it all up, please say a few words to those who still remember you and your works and still hope maybe for another Phlebotomized CD.

Lawrence: “Nee heb je… ja kun je vergeten…”… Peace…

Tom: I still thank the people who went nuts while listening to our music. Thanks for taking the time to listen to it. We didn’t make it easy for you, so all you diehards keep up listening and pass forward the remembrance of Phlebotomized.

Dennis: Thank you people! Eternal gratitude to those who supported the band, came to our shows or bought our CDs. Don’t hope for a reunion, but watch out for our new bands. Anyone looking for information on Phlebotomized or our CDs can check us at www.myspace.com/phlebotomized. It is sort of a tribute site… I have put up a lot of information about the band and links to everybody’s new projects too. Both of our full lengths are still available (I have a little box with CDs in my room)… Thank you too, Felix! It was fun to do an interview again after 10 years!

Enormous thank you and sincerest gratitude to all great and responsive people who helped me organizing this interview, i.e. Ivar, Jordy and Perry. And also lots of disrespect to the band Even-vast, who never even wrote me back, and their management, who were ‘trying to get contacts of Phlebo-guys’ for about 1.5 years!!

Phlebotomized on the Internet: http://www.myspace.com/phlebotomized

Felix Yakovlev
Winter/Autumn 2006
5 дек 2006 the End


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Phlebotomized

Gone... But Never Forgotten

Glop

Hellg