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25 май 2007
THERION: Russian Misery
I wish there would be a short way of saying this, but to fully get people grasp the picture, I'm posting this detailed story of what really happened in Russia and the background of it.
When you make a total fuck up show, loose loads of money on it (2500 showed up in Moscow, they expected 4000) and have thousands of angry people looking your way, it is of course convenient with a scapegoat. Especially when you can write in russian and this person don't speak that language and you don't expect him to be able to defend him self. And everybody of course "knows" that musicians are demaning stars that are causing all sorts of problems and delays for the poor hard working promoters. Like Axl Rose, if he's in a bad mood the concert gets some hours delayed, or those alcoholic musicians that are too drunk to get their shit together and go on stage in time. Well, believe it or not, but quite a lot of us are in fact the opposite. We often put up with things that you would never believe a big band would accept and I've heard so many times from people I've met that they are surprised that we are just totally "normal people". We fly tourist class or even low budget airlines like Ryan Air to shows, eat normal food and dress normally (in case someone though we have a private jet, eat russian caviar for breakfast and use the same tailor as Elton John). I'm the only one in the band who owns a car and we all live in normal appartments in boring suburbs. Just thought it might be good to know in case you happen to stand outside a concert hall waiting for 4 hours and wonder if the delay is because of:
A- the band finnishing their champagne & caviar session at the pool and that might take some time - it's a damn good champagne! =)
or
B - if it maybe could be due to technical problems and that the bands crew are the heroes of the day making a show happen at all.
I remember the ONLY time when WE ever cancelled a show (shows being cancelled by the fact that our tour bus broke down or similar that made us unable to get to the show in time, or shows that were cancelled by the promoter by some reason is another thing). That was in Livorno in Italy, back in 1998 promoting the Vovin album. The stage was around 15 cm high and so small that when the drums was on it, there was no space for the band. The promoter had intended the band to stand on the floor (!) and play in front of the audience! The PA was of the same type as any average demo band would have in their rehearsal room and was good for nothing except maybe vocals - for ONE singer (Therion had 4 on that tour). The catering (for 28 people including crew and drivers) were 2 six packs of coca cola and one plate with golden toast sandwhiches. Not even one drink and a pice to put in the mough for each person in the traveling party.
The promoter had broken every term imaginable in the contract and it would be a terrible embarressment of a show if we attempted to play, so we (Therion and Moonspell who also was on that tour) decided to not do the show and leave. After we had left, the promoter was talking to fans who had traveled far to see the show and explained to them how big rock stars we were and that he had given us "everything imaginable", but nothing was good enough for us and we canceled. He said he had worked with Deep Purple and they were happy, but Therion and Moonspell had too special demands...
Today I had a deja-vu when reading a translation of what the russian promoter was writing about the show in Moscow last weekend. I was thinking about Livorno in Italy. Of course, things were not as bad as in Livorno and after all, we managed to do the show. And even though it (as usual) was more complicated to provide a normal vegetarian meal than to make a pig fly, I can not complain about the catering for the people who were not vegetarians, they were fed well. But the principle to blame the band (and management) for having "bad behaviour" in an attempt to cover up for them selves not having fulfilled much of the agreed terms and making a total mess of everything is the same.
So why was the show delayed then?
Delay reason no 1: When our road crew and sound engineer arrived to the venue in the morning, there were CARS (!) standing on the stage. They had an exhibition the day before and no one had moved them. Obviously they can't start setting up our stuff when the stage is filled with cars. Or maybe we should put the drum kit in one of the the back seats and the singer can stand on the roof of the cars?
Delay reason no 2: As the case is in many countries with poor economy, much of the equipment did not work at all, or had several malfunctions. Getting new stuff in or making special solutions to get things working takes time. That is not what our crew is paid to do (fix broken stuff), but that is still what they must do every time we end up in countries where the promoters do not live up to what they have formally agreed to when signing the contract and accepting the technical rider. The only way we can avoid that is to either become so big that the promotors that book U2, Ozzy, Metallica and those kind of bands get interested, or to simply avoid playing in those countries where we know these things happen. We want to play, so this is the reality we have to deal with also in the future.
The discussions regarding if Therion should cancel or not did not even cause a 5 min delay. We had discussions while the crew were working with their stuff and nothing was ever stopped because of that. Either the promoter is lying or he simply have no clue of what was going on at all (I suspect the latter).
Then what was this talk about cancelling about then?
I was originally asked if we wanted to play Moscow again and I accepted that offer of course, it always RULED to play there. More or less at the same time it was suggested that we could have both Blind Guardian and Therion playing on the same stage. We would get paid the same and do our show, but it would mean a bigger concert hall and more people. Why not, sounded like a good idea.
One month before the show, I get to hear that Pain is also playing. Not from our booking agent (but this was their fault though, not the promoters), but from Kristian who had met Peter from Pain. This was worrying me, as I know there's often technical issues in Russia. And I was later told by our agent we would have a playing time of 1,5 hours as "it was a festival". I could have made a problem out of that too, as what I agreed to was to make a full Therion show on stage before Blind Guardian, not to participate in a festival. But I accepted that as I thought it would be an amazing show in a huge venue where we could put on a show to blow everyone away (now it turned out we played a SMALLER venue with the same amount of people as when headlining last time).
We applied for the VISA to Russia and after a lot of trouble and mess (as the promoters partner of course sent us the wrong papers!) and time went and we got no more info from the promoter, our tour manager said one week before the show that "the only thing that is totally confirmed the the flights you booked your self and the name of the hotel were we're staying". Then the depost didn't arrive (the promoters must pay a far of the fee as a deposit to our bank in advance as a security to cover our flights in case he choose to cancel the show) and this in combination with not getting any info from the promoter about the technical things would have been enough for most booking agents to cancel the show. They still decided to go on and it was agreed to get the cash for the show paid in advance on the day of arrival (day before the show) to avoid cancellation. 3 days before the show we got the technical info with the stage dimensions and our sound engineers and tour manager made it clear to me that with all these bands and Blind Guardians idea of that their drum kit should be set up and then not moved, we would have to put our drums in front of theirs. Principally I disagreed with that, we pulled 2500 people on our last headline perfomance in Moscow, Blind Guardian pulled 2800. We're not their support act even if they're a bit bigger and we have a lot of stage scenery that would looks very strange if their drum kit would be in the back of ours. And when it became clear to me that the stage was of a size suitable fro a club concert and not a festival stage and that we would have between 1-1,5 meters (that's about 3-5 feets) left in front of the drums if we did our set up in front of them (and that would have to fit monitors as well!), I simply decied to cancel. We would then announce it some days ahead, so those who wanted could cancel travels and return tickets.
I was then persuaded by the booking agent to still do the show on the basis that the stage would be extended with 2 meters and that we would be able to solve most of the issues.
We were then flying and I spent 200 SEK (equals 22 euro or 30 USD) per kilo (1 kilo = 2,2 pounds) in excess luggage/overweight for each flight. Only the backdrop (the background hanging behind a band) weights over 25 kg. One guitar in a flight case weights 18 kg. A box containing cables, pedal boards and other small things needed for the show, weight 35-40 kg. Go figue what the value of the backdrop, stage fence and all other scenery costs to bring over. Remember this when reading the rest.
The promoter had promised to pay both bands on the vening of arrival, as he hadn't payed the despoits as agreed earlier, but this he didn't. Many bands would have cancelled after the promoter breaking two agreed schedules of payments. We still decided to go for it and trust in the promoter, as we had worked with him 2 times before without promblems.
When the crew got to the venue, it became clear that the PA was attached to the wall and could not be moved forward and there was no room to build the stage deeper in the back. If we would have extended it more to the front and the PA stays where it is, it would have been impossible to use the extra space for the singers, as you get only feedback ("beeeep") from the microphones if they are in front on the PA. So we were back to the 10 x 6 meter stage situation. I was then making it clear (this was in the morning) that I'm not gonna do the show during these circumstances. We wouldn't be able to use our stage scenery at all, the singers would have no podiums to stand on and would instead have to stand on the floor behind us (and barely be seen by the audience for the parts when they didn't sing solo stuff and went to the front).
Therion anno 2007 is not just a band performing music, we are making a complete show, it's more like an opera metal music performance. Compare how Therion looked like in Moscow with this photo from Holland
This photo shows how the show was SUPPOSED to look like also in Moscow when I originally agreed to do the show. From my point of view, it was better to cancel and then come back at some later point and do the show in a proper manner instead of doing a crap show (well, maybe some of you liked it anyway, but then imagine how incredibly much better it would have been with the real show).
I had a meeting with Hansi from Blind Guardian and the booking agent we both use. I suggested we could save the day by taking down Blind Guardians drums after sound check, put ours up there and then in the change over we'd put their back again. This is how we did it on the tour we did with Grave Digger and it worked fine. Hansi had some doubts being afraid it "may change the sound of the drums in their in ear monitors". I also use in ear monitors (like most other in Therion) and given the fact that Blind Guardian had their own drum microphones (like we also did on the tour with Grave Digger), I could testify that the risk of a notable change is increadibly small, basically non existing. As a matter of fact the sound anyway change a bit when you go on stage with a crowd on the hall, as they absorb much of the reflections coming back from the hall when soundchecking in an empty venue.
We called the crew and asked about it and Peter (the best damn tech on the planet) said it could be done, but admitted it could make some minor changes to the sound. Hansi agreed to do it when it was clear the option would be Therion cancelling. However making this happen would require a much longer change over, which would mean much more work for the crew (which we agreed should be paid double for that sake) and it would therefore be very unlikely that there would be time also for any of the other bands to perform, as the technical difficulties reported from the crew at the venue seemed to be enormous (there was for example several power losses where the entire PA went dead).
We waited at the hotel for some hours while Blind Guardian soundchecked. When we finally were brought to the venue Hansi told me that "there was no space" to put away their drums. There was space for it behind stage and when I mentioned that, he told me the sound would change, so it became clear to me that he just simply changed his mind and didn't care about what he promised earlier. Or there was some other guy in the band not happy with what Hansi promised and made him take it back.
I then went down on the stage, checked how it would look like and it became totally clear that we wouldn't be able to use any scenery and that absolutely everything was totally fucked, we were to appear on stage like some fucking support act and all the scenery I payed to fly over would be lying behind stage. I went back backstage and said that I wanted to cancel if this was the circumstances for us and Hansi made clear that it was more important that Blind Guardian don't risk* having a different* sound in the in ear monitor than Therion performing (which is quite notable, as if they din't see any point with us playing and pulling people, then why did they agree to the arrangement with both bands playing in the first place?).
* Notice "risk" and "different". it is in no way sure it would be different and also "different" doesn't automatically mean worse either.
I then told Hansi I would cancel and he made clear he valued the Blind Guardians drum sound in the monitor more than Therion performing.
I was about to go outside the venue and tell people we're cancelling and tell them why. But I thought I'd speak with the band first. I realized I was maybe too fucking angry to take good decisions, so I told Kristian that lay down my own vote and let the band decide. They decided we play.
Please note that if Therion would have cancelled, I would have had to pay the flight tickets, overweight, russian VISA costs and another number of expenses from my own pocket. It's not something I would do unless I had very good reasons obviously.
Everyone was in a bad mood (especially me who also couldn't get a proper meal, they "forgot" to order also a vegetarian pizza and the regular meal was consisting of 4 pieces of boiled peppers + some decoration with 2 broccoli, so I had to watch everybody else eat really nice meals + extra pizza if they needed more - only some minutes before I had to get on stage there was some delivery of boiled rice with some vegetables in a paper box) and we didn't play too well because of that. There was no motivation at all, just do it and get the hell out of there asap. We have a very detailed corriography which is tied to the show we do nowadays and it was just plain chaos, no one knew where or how to move in the mess on stage and on the top on everything the promoter had not given the back-up guitar to our crew, so for the odd tunings, I had to wait while the guitar tech re-tuned the guitar, very professional. As if that wasn't enough, just to have that extra spice of annoying, there was no strap for Mats guitar, it was a rope (!) there instead and to make the worst show on World Tour 2007 a totally unbeatable status at the bottom, my guitar tech did the worst mistake I ever had from a tech, he managed to tune the B sting in C# (this may not mean much to you who don't play instruments, but imagine that some of the keys on your computer keyboard would get rewired, so that for example every "E" became an "X" and every "O" became a "B", then typing "hello" would result in writing "hxllb", imagine that on a guitar and how it sounds). I had to do some improvising to cover that up it crowned the bitterness of seeing a show that normally should have been on the Top 5 best shows on the tour the worst.
From now on, when we play in these "problematic" type of countries, we will always play alone with no other band playing (before or after). You guys pay for your tickets which in relation to your incomes is as much or even more than what someone in western Europe pays. So you deserve to have the same good concert experience for your money, not some kind of low budget B- or C-version. I feel responsible to give you a high class performance and that is why I was prepared to take a huge economic hit to cancel and come back alone at some later time. Now we did this crap and the market for another show (with another promoter) is full for the rest of the year, then I plan to take one year off and the year after that we'll be recording a new album, so next chance to do a proper show in Russsia again will be 2010.
Anybody unhappy with the show and need to loose some frustration can send their complaints to the promoter who fucked it up.
If you on the other hand like to hail some great musicians, completely without ego problems and with a totally non-pretentious self image, also send some roses and greetings to Blind Guardian, congratulating them for their outstandingly remarkable generosity and comeradeship, not to mention the great honesty shown. They're bigger than Metallica, have more complex music than Dream Theather and Meshuggah and a more delicate sound than Pink Floyd - yet they did SO many great sacrifices to help our little band warming up the stage for them, the only band people wanted to see that night. Sometimes the word "thank you" is simply not enough...
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А вот BG реально как издевались что-ли :( где тут дружба, взаимовыручка. Они поступили как попсовые сучки :(
и еще - насчет одиночного выступления я согласна... когд выступают Боги, не дело это, чтоб они друг на друга наползали, наседали и бог еще знет чего делали. Бг это БГ, Тэрион это Тэрион, и каждый крут по-своему.
Вообще смысл послания, видимо, в том что музыканты - вполне себе обычные ребята, далеко не богатые, которым и 22 бакса за кило (даже не учитывая что тех кило было много) - деньги. Пусть и не смертельные, но деньги. И вдвойне обидно мучиться и тратиться впустую, чтобы из за раздолбайства организаторов всё это похерилось.
Как в том анекдоте - "Купила себе геморрой, дешёвый, но очень качественный".
Терион мог бы забить на декорации (в конце концов, мы ходим музыку слушать или на декоры смотреть?)
А блинды могли бы поделиться установкой. В конце концов, РЕГУЛЯРНО проводятся фесты, где все группы, в том числе иностранные, играют на одной и то же установке (только тарелки меняют, но это быстро)
но ведь это творческие люди, важно всё шоу, музыку можно и дома послушать, а вот усилить ощущение концертной атмосферы как раз призвани декорации и эффекты.
А насчёт одной ударки ты прав, BG конечно намутили, а сыграть могли бы и на однйо ударке.
Эх, а я ещё мечтаю о хорошем клубе в Минске... :'(
кста :) ждём версию BG гггг
но судя по всему, тут все внесли свой вклад, так сказать:)
и еще - если совсем честно, то я не очень понимаю, зачем так подробно все это описывать... мы зрители, нас вообще должен волновать только результат. мы платили деньги и имели определенные ожидания, а значит, имеем право получить то, что хотим! машины на сцене, барабанные установки, менеджеры и прочая лабуда для нас - вообще малое*** фактор. понятно, что все люди, и в мире бывает всякое, но все же... это все, включая перевесы и декорации, саавсем не наши проблемы.
заметьте, господа, такой интересный факт - жалуется только Тэрион, сотальные молчат. или это они пока полчат?:)
именно. удивительно, что молчит катарсис - им так и не дали полабать хоть пару песен
Нет не могли... хотя бы потому, что техник английским:) языком сказал, что это ухудшит звук. Ханзи в первую очередь должен думать не о том, как будет играть Терион, а о том, как выступит его группа. Будь ситуация противоположная, Йохнcсjн ТАКЖЕ бы послал BG...
И потом, стока раз рассказывать, что я мог бы не приезжать - у меня полно оснований - зачем же он поехал, Д'Артаньян ?
Ага... самому аж стыдно, что я тогда, не дождавшись выхода на бис, рванул в сторону гадероба :) Хотя, скорее всего, он проклинал не нас, а вместе с нами, то есть организаторов...
Насчет того, что все молчат, так это все нормально: Катарсис еще за день до концерта вроде отказались (хотя до масс это докатилось только в день самого концерта)... Ханси и Ко, в принципе, не на что жаловаться: установку у них нее отняли, зрители приняли горячо, да и футболочки с их логотипом расходились активнее всех :) ...
Пете так вообще грех ругаться: его практически не урезали, а то, что было, пошло на "ура!"... После километровой очереди ты не то, что Pain, ты чуть ли не попсу будешь с удовольствием слушать :) ... Первый русский блин лично для Тангрена вышел отнюдь не комом...
Катаров отчасти жалко, от другой части... Не очень... Они все равно чуть ли не каждый месяц в Москве рубят... Да и в этот день пришли слушать далеко не их...
на самом деле, надо уметь прогибаться под обстоятельства, а не начинать собачиться из-за всяких там барабанных установок. не вопрос жизни и смерти, в конце-то концов!... тем более, что, как было верно подмечено, сами они хрен бы с кем поделились.
Вегетарианцы - больные люди, только о еде и думают. Обалдеть:
"...я вынужден был наблюдать, как все остальные едят по-настоящему вкусную еду + у них была еще пицца, если они захотят добавки – только за несколько минут до того, как мне надо было выходить на сцену, доставили вареный рис с какими-то овощами в картонной коробке), и поэтому мы отыграли не особенно хорошо. Не было никакой мотивации, просто сделать это и свалить оттуда к чертовой матери."
Если бы не последний абзац про цветы, можно было бы посчитать претензии г-на К. за простую констатацию фактов - вот, мол, какие в России промоутеры хреновые. А последний абзац все перечеркнул. Завидует он, что ли?
Кстати, интересно, будет ли "наш ответ Чемберлену", выскажутся ли Блайнды по этому вопросу? Ведь это им пришлось играть на три часа позже оговоренного при стремительно пустеющем зале. У меня такое ощущение, что нет.
Во всей этой неразберихе один Катарсис остался белый и пушистый в виду своего неучастия, и если уж жаловаться, то именно ему - такой вечер был сорван ))
А JC Sound облажался, конечно, по-полной. И повесил на сайте табличку "under reconstruction", дабы претензий не возникало...
и такой еще забавный факт: щас режу себе мелодийки на телефон из ЬГ и Тэриона. БГ весь нарезался и без выпендрежа пошел на телефон, а зато мобильник не хочет ни одну тэрионскую мелодию воспринимать:))))))))
Мобильники они такие - знают что к чему